Podcast Transcript

Episode 51: Dating During Eating Disorder Recovery with Alum Alexiss Audrey

[Bouncy theme music plays.]

Sam: Hey, I’m Sam.

Ashley: Hi, I’m Ashley, and you’re listening to All Bodies. All Foods. presented by The Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders. We want to create a space for all bodies to come together authentically and purposefully to discuss various areas that impact us on a cultural and relational level.

Sam: We believe that all bodies and all foods are welcome. We would love for you to join us on this journey. Let’s learn together.

Ashley: Hi everyone, welcome back to All Bodies All Foods. Y’all we are kicking off season six today and I’m so excited to share with you that we’re highlighting the importance of our recovery stories in this season. We’ve asked and you have answered letting us know some of the themes that would be helpful for you. So to start the series off, I’d love to introduce you all to Alexiss Audrey, alum of the Renfrew Center.

Alexiss Audrey is an alum of Renfrew and has been recovered for almost 10 years. She is a mentor, recovery advocate, and freelancer in beauty. Today, we’re going to be discussing her journey towards eating disorder recovery and dating. Alexiss, thank you so much for joining us today. And we would love if you would just share with us a little bit about your journey to recovery, what that looks like for you, and how do you how do you define your recovery?

Alexiss: I was struggling with anorexia and bulimia. This was in the 2010s when Tumblr and Brandy Melville were a big influence, and I would say, a really hard time to be dealing with an eating disorder. When I first went into recovery, it felt kind of forced by pretty much everyone around me and I wanted to run through. I just wasn’t ready and I took a break. Then I was in inpatient in California for a few months, and at that time I was like, “okay, now I’m ready.” In the beginning, when I first was there, I was still kind of in this hopeless place where all I wanted was health and happiness, but it did seem impossible, and of course, when you’re in that state, it feels very out of reach. The ideas that I had of recovery and what it would look like were very scary to me. I know now that those fears aren’t the reality and none of that, like most of it, didn’t actually happen. Once I was there, the first few weeks, I was always smiling and extremely reserved, and then my dietitian actually, she pulled me aside. She was like, “oh, we have to look out for you. You’re always smiling and, you know, where you are and everything.” Then eventually, I was opening up, crying all the time, and that’s when I fully surrendered to the idea of recovery, so it can actually do its job, and that literally saved me. I’ve been able to experience so many unique chapters after recovery that I’ve thought to myself, wow, I’m like so happy to be alive for this, and maybe I wouldn’t have made it. And I think I have a greater appreciation for happiness because of those dark times.

Sam: You mentioned some fears that you had initially, and I was just curious, what were those fears about recovery?

Alexiss: I was afraid of going and leaning on and crutching onto something else to suppress my other emotions, my underlying emotions. I actually went completely sober right after, and that I think helped a lot. But yes, of course, it was a fear. I was like, “oh, what am I going to do? My eating disorder is my crutch. That is how I got through everything.” That was a fear also.

Sam: Yeah, thanks for bringing that up because substance use and eating disorders so frequently travel together. And it’s so important that whatever treatment that you get that it addresses both because it’s so connected.

Ashley: Yes. Alexiss, you mentioned that you went to a couple of different places and maybe like that first time you weren’t ready for it. I’m curious if you could touch more on that or tell us a little bit more about that.

Alexiss: Yes, I first did an outpatient program at Renfrew, and I had to take a break. Then I went to this place, it’s actually in California and I did stay there for a few months and lived there. There were six people at the house at a time- it was three men and three women, and actually being with men really opened my eyes to, okay, this isn’t just about body image. I already knew that, but it’s not just about body image and food, it’s a lot deeper than that, and I had my eyes just open up more to men’s health, which I’ve really dived into and have sympathy for now after that.

Sam: Alexiss, when we’re talking about you being in recovery and going through treatment, what were some of the themes that came up for you as you were healing?

Alexiss:  I would say that there is pain in healing. Recovery isn’t going to be a straight line. It’s more of a roller coaster and scary sometimes, and there’s no peace and perfection. Sometimes healing is harder than the actual pain or events. Usually, a person first resorts to engaging in activities that are suppressing their actual pain and that they’re afraid to process or face. There are going to be slip ups and you aren’t going to be happy all the time after recovery. I’ve had my fair share of moments where I’m falling into depression again, but I’m handling it way differently this time. I know what to do, the cognitive therapy works well, and if you have slip ups, none of that’s going to take away from the hard work that you’ve done and how long you’ve had a success in your recovery. I definitely struggled a lot with perfection and control, and we know that of course, is a common experience through an eating disorder. I realized I was just stressing myself out way more by doing that and it’s going to be okay at the end of the day, and it doesn’t always have to go according to my minute by minute schedule. I don’t have to get upset if I don’t look the way I want to that day, it’s really not the end of the world.

Ashley: Thinking about those themes, Alexiss, how do you define your recovery story? What does recovery or being recovered look like for you versus when those themes were coming up? You mentioned if moments of depression come up, you might respond differently now. What does that look like now?

Alexiss: Now I just know, okay, it’s time to order some meal deliveries and start to cook more, just so I know I won’t ever fall back into my eating disorder. I might have a day where I’m laying in bed more and that’s okay, but I won’t ever like let it be the way it was and I won’t have many of those days. It is kind of a scary time that you just don’t ever want to go back to. That and that alone is super motivating to stay away from that.

Ashley: Yeah, like you have the awareness now, like if you’re brain or your body started down a path, you can be like, “no, that’s not what we’re going to do. We’re going to do we’re going to use the skill. We’re going to do this now.”

Alexiss: Exactly, I think my brain has been super wired that it’s so foreign to me the way I used to think. Sometimes I think those are two different people.

Sam: I know with relapse prevention planning, one of the things that we’ll do is we’ll talk about the green light, yellow light and red light signs that you might be slipping. And like you said, Ashley, it’s so important to have that awareness that “Okay, I’m out of the green zone now. I’m more in the yellow. There are signs that I know that I am slipping and maybe it’s that I’m, you know, I notice I’m staying in bed longer” or do you know like what are your yellow signs, Alexiss?

Alexiss: Yeah, I would definitely say the bed one. I, and I think it’s fine to have those days when you literally can’t get out of bed and I’m always someone that will sit with my emotions. I don’t want to go out. I don’t want to be suppressing them because I do know that prolongs my healing process a lot longer than if I were just to sit and actually face my emotions and process them when I’m supposed to. So yeah, I would say that laying in bed and just isolating a bit, and just being more on the quieter side, but then I’ll make more therapy appointments or just talk it out or I’ll make a trip or I’ll hang out with my friends and just do more wellness activities when that feels like it’s happening.

Sam: Get those tools out of the toolbox.

Ashley: Hey, Alexiss, could you tell us a little bit more about your mentoring and how you advocate for recovery and for eating disorders and stuff like that.

Alexiss: I realized that the reason I went through everything I went through, there’s like a lot of peace in that thought. I have to also have compassion for myself that I didn’t deserve any of that. I feel like a lot of it is because I was meant to help other people, and I started feeling that way during COVID. I remember I was panicking at the beginning. I was like, “oh, I’ve never faced this before,”  and then I realized I’m okay. And there probably are a lot of people that might be slipping back during this time, because really we haven’t faced any of this. That’s when I started working with Renfrew again and I started doing webinars and some podcasts and panels. Then I got into mentoring just to be there for other people, because I did have a privilege where I was able to go and be inpatient and outpatient. I know it’s really hard with insurances and resources, so a lot of people don’t have that. I just know that having that really helps just validate your emotions and your eating disorder thoughts, because you really do feel like you’re the only one like this.  Then you hear, “oh my God, thank you for understanding my actual thoughts” and they’re scary thoughts.

Ashley: Yeah, I just can’t imagine how like that feels like it’s so healing for another individual that’s going through that to have a mentor that like gets it, you know, and can relate.

Alexiss: Yeah, because when you are talking, at some point, you get tired of hearing pro-recovery thoughts from therapists and doctors and you’re like, “okay, they don’t understand, they’re just trying to make me better.” It does, in the beginning I felt like I was against them, so when I had other people like me or when I would go into support groups, it did feel just better to have that kind of community and understanding in that time.

Sam: Yeah, I think validating and normalizing the feelings and the thoughts that come up during recovery is so important, which is why we love having alums on our podcast. Because our listeners, I think it lands differently when they hear from someone who’s actually been through it. And they can say to themselves, “Oh, I’m not the only one that had these experiences.” So thank you for being on our show because your story is so important.

Ashley: I want to shift it a little bit Alexiss, and I want to talk about dating. I think Sam and I both think that this is a topic that really our listeners want to hear about because how many of us can relate to kind of this experience, right? So I was thinking that when you’re in eating disorder recovery, not only are you trying to develop, well, you are trying to develop a relationship with yourself. Like, what does a healthy relationship with yourself look like? What does a healthy relationship with food look like? What does a healthy relationship with your body look like? What does a healthy relationship with your emotions look like? You know, so you’re trying to navigate and figure out your relationship to yourself, essentially. How in the world then are we able to navigate and figure out a relationship with another person?  I was just curious if you could touch on that, you know.

Alexiss: On top of all of that and dealing with another person, it is difficult, as you can imagine, but honestly, I was so lucky when I was struggling with my disorder. I had an extremely, extremely supportive and loving boyfriend, and I’ll always express gratitude towards him and his role in my recovery. He really was my rock at the time. We had a lot of hard conversations at such a young age, and I’ll look at other relationships and they don’t have that level of emotional intelligence, which is interesting and different. He helped me understand it is possible to have someone supportive through hard times and it really was a blueprint and a foundation for future relationship expectations. I’m happy I had that. And also when I was at Renfrew, I remember we had family day and I would see a lot of other significant others come in and be rocks for everyone else so it was nice to see it in that way. Of course I’ve also had experiences where the person wasn’t really supportive or made me feel like it was bothersome or held against me in that type of way. I’ve kind of experienced both. I think if you’re marrying someone, we should know a lot about each other, even the dark things, and still love each other. I think it is important to share it with someone at that point.

Ashley: Yeah. It just makes me think how vulnerable you are. Maybe I think I might be jumping ahead here, but how vulnerable you have to be to share the dark stuff with somebody in that space.

Alexiss: Yeah, I normally don’t. I probably only did it with like one or two people. I definitely have a guard up and sometimes I feel like when you have a guard up too much, it kind of takes away from fulfilling your life too much. At the same time, if I just let my guard down for everyone, it takes away from how special the relationship is, rather if I let it down for one special person.

Sam:  So, Alexiss, you had this relationship while you’re in treatment, that was really helpful to you, very supportive. And at some point, did you kind of choose to end that relationship and then start dating again while you were in recovery?

Alexiss: Yeah, so I was really avoidant at the time and, poor thing, he really like stuck by me. I broke up with him on his birthday, then we got back together. I broke up with him on Valentine’s Day and we broke up again and I did go into treatment. Then I think maybe we had a full break for a year and then we did get back together. That time when I got back together, I realized, “Oh no, I’m like being with him reminds me of my old self.” I again had to end the relationship, but you know, we talked a year ago and we’ve kind of kept communication. We always know what is going on in each other’s lives, but at the end of the day, our life paths are just very different.

Sam: Do you remember what was happening with you in your eating disorder recovery when you were going through these breakups with your boyfriend? Because I just sort of want to normalize for our listeners out there. I know that loss and transition and really any kind of stressful thing in a relationship can sometimes activate the eating disorder, and I was just curious if that was part of your experience.

Alexiss:  Yeah, I definitely had that push and pull mentality and I kind of in my head thought, okay, guys have no hearts there, you know, so I felt like I could act however I wanted, but that wasn’t the case. I had the push and pull mentality. Then I kind of did see him almost against me because he wanted me to get help so bad that I was just like, “no, you’re like everyone else.” So yeah, that part was hard.

Sam: Yeah, and so at what point did you sort of enter the dating world again in recovery?

Alexiss: I feel it was, it was a few months after I kind of, I felt really rebirthed and rewired that I just wanted to be with my friends and have fun. I felt like I had to make up for a lot of lost time because I wasn’t present. Honestly, I had a great life while I had my eating disorder, or on the outside it looks like I did. I was doing amazing things, experiences, but because I wasn’t present, I’m like, “oh, I have to make up like almost 10 years of my life,” so I just wanted to live every day to the fullest after that.

Sam: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Part of taking care of yourself was maybe figuring out what you needed in that moment and what you wanted your relationships to look like, you know, right out of treatment. And it was a lot of time with friends and having fun and enjoying yourself. So yeah, I think that that’s such an important part of healing.

Ashley: Alexiss, so I’m curious, when you did get back out into the dating field, you know, in the eating disorder world and eating disorder recovery, we talk a lot about body image and how we perceive ourselves, how we feel about ourselves, all of that. And I’m curious, what did getting ready for maybe a date or going out to a concert, while in recovery, what did that feel like for you? Were there certain pressures that came up once you were in recovery? And if so, what were some tools that you used to support yourself?

Alexiss: It’s funny you said concerts. I am a big concert goer. It’s like my happy place because you’re guaranteed a good night. Everyone there loves the same music as you. Nothing really can go to be too crazy or go wrong, no drama. You’re just loving your favorite songs. But anyways, getting ready. This is going back in time because I’m not in that place currently. But when I was going on dates, I had a first date dress and heels that I’ve only worn on those dates. It was putting myself steps ahead because I didn’t have to worry about what I was going to wear. I was more at ease and I was more concerned if I was going to like the person more than what they thought of me. And God, I haven’t worn that navy dress and silver heels in probably two years.  But if I were going to dinner with my friends, body image thoughts come up every once in a while. It’s super normal and for anyone with or without an eating disorder. But again, my brain has been rewired so it’s not something that’s going to ruin my day or month like it used to. I remember back then, one outfit or event around an outfit, my whole month would be ruined or the month leading up to it was ruined. That just doesn’t happen for me anymore. I don’t like to stare into the mirror too long, and I see it a lot with my friends and it does really make me sad, I really will like pull away. When I notice it, I will pull away the mirror from them because they’re just looking at themselves for a long time. And then they start noticing these little, little things about themselves that I’m telling them no one else is noticing that about them, but they do because they are staring at themself too long. I do a two second kind of thing. I’m think everything’s good to go, I’m not going to just stand there for a while. And even when my friends are having conversations about body image and weight and things in that nature, when I was first out of recovery, I kind of would stop them and say, “stop, this isn’t good.” But now I don’t really say much about that to them, especially if they’ve known me for a really long time, I kind of just don’t engage in that. Literally my brain turns off when I hear that, because before I felt like I had to overwork in my brain, like, “oh, like they’re talking about this and this, but it’s been a long recovery now.” My brain will shut off and I just choose not to engage in that talk because that is feeding into their self-image and eating disorder thoughts that I just don’t want to engage in.

Sam: Yeah, absolutely. That sort of brings me to one of my next questions. I was wondering whether it’s the process of getting ready or actually being on a date. Was there anything that you learned in therapy or in treatment that has really helped you in those situations? Whether it was like something a therapist said to you that sort of stuck with you or a tool that you learned, what helps you?

Alexiss: Yeah, I would say setting boundaries, accepting yourself and others and finding a secure place that you can be open in relationships and letting go of perfect expectations in life and other people. You’re going to have to forgive yourself a lot and forgive the people around you also. I think about people that are together for 50 years, imagine how many times they had to forgive each other and you’re also vulnerable for letting them hurt your feelings too. It happens and that’s called working together.

Ashley: So, Alexiss, I’m curious what maybe going out to dinner might have felt like in the beginning of your recovery and maybe even now. Did it ever feel like there was like a third wheel going with you, with like the eating disorder thoughts?

Alexiss: I avoided a restaurant for many years then. Instagram actually helped me a lot with that. I was thinking, “oh, food can be pretty.” The restaurants and ambiance, there’s this aesthetic that was helpful in an interesting way. It’s funny, my friend reminded me maybe a few months ago, that in the beginning of our friendship, probably the first four years, she wasn’t able to talk about food or restaurants around me. I forgot that that I used to think that way. I love going out to restaurants now. It’s such an experience that I love and being with my friends. I definitely have a different outlook, but it is wild to look back and think, wow, that’s another person I can’t believe I thought like that, or that you couldn’t talk about food or restaurants with me. I tell them “thank you for being patient with me and loving all the different versions of me also.” I would say for other people it’s kind of a good idea to look at the menu beforehand. So you kind of know what to expect and you can be fully present on the date or dinner with friends and you’re not staring at the menu or over analyzing it too much. I think it’s just good to have your order in mind so you know you’re actually listening to the person that’s talking to you, because I know in those moments you’re looking at the menu and you’re not hearing, you’re just seeing the person’s mouth moving but you’re not hearing what they’re saying. So that is helpful and also I am not drinking, so people always are wondering how I date and not drink because some people mostly need a drink or a few drinks to feel more comfortable or let loose or whatever on the date. I would actually feel more self-conscious or in my thoughts if I were to drink. I also don’t think you’re 100% authentic or yourself when you’re drinking. If I’m nervous, I’m nervous, I guess, but it doesn’t really change the way I’m talking or how outgoing I will be. I can’t be with someone that’s partying all the time. I love to sleep early. So once in a while, sure, I’ll go party. But I will fall asleep if it’s past my bedtime. I go nonverbal. I’ll be like 100 and then I just decline in a snap of fingers. I have a collection of photos from my friends taking photos of me falling asleep when it’s past my bedtime. It just happens. I personally can’t be with someone that’s partaking in that.

Sam: Alexiss, I’m curious, you know, when we think about dating, we think about, you know, being vulnerable as part of getting to know someone and, making the choice to be sober and being in eating disorder recovery. What was that like for you that process of letting people know?

Alexiss: I definitely struggled with vulnerability and intimacy so much, and sometimes I still do. It’s like I said, rare for my guard to be down. I’m not someone that can participate in hookup culture. Sometimes I wish I wasn’t so restrictive, but again, I’m grateful that I am. My first boyfriend, I never let him touch me. He could have literally had any girl, but he was so loyal and stuck by me. I do recommend looking into a relationship coach maybe to help with that. A year ago, I started working with a secure relationship coach named Julie, she’s on Instagram. She helped me a lot through my avoidant attachment things and it’s not fun because you are healing that part of and trying to adapt  to an opposite attachment style. I know I’m getting into a more secure spot. When it comes to telling someone, I do feel that when I do, I’m just like, “okay, if this person’s going to be in my life forever, I want them to know this and not hold it against me and just be there for me.” Obviously there is going to be obstacles in future, whether you’re having kids or the things that come up. You just need to consider if this person is going to be able to handle any hardships that might come our way?, I think EMDR helped me a lot too. I did that twice. I did do it after recovery. I did it on my own and then did it last May and it was really, really hard, because you are facing events that you kind of just pushed away or put to the side. I was definitely scared and I was going through that for a whole month. But after that, I thought, I’m ready for a relationship. I felt like I had no lingering feelings for anyone, no baggage. I can openly speak about my trauma from a more healed place than a victim place, and before that, I didn’t want a relationship and they just kept falling into my lap and I wasn’t ready and I was extremely avoidant for that reason, too. I think you’re kind of doing a disservice to yourself and the other person if you don’t feel like you can be honest. But again, you don’t have to tell everyone. It is your business, and if you feel it’s appropriate to share, then share.

Ashley: What you’re saying, it’s bringing up the idea of true intimacy to me and if you meet a partner that  you genuinely feel like you could see a future with and you want this to move forward and you want to be at a certain level in this relationship to truly be intimate with them emotionally, physically, mentally, like letting them in to your story is important.

Alexiss: Yeah, I think if you are in the beginning of recovery, or wherever you are in life, or you’re dealing with something that isn’t recovery, I think it’s also important to take breaks from a relationship. I’ve done that many times. I may need a two-week break or a few months break where I need to be alone. And then we can come back together. And sometimes people have to separate and work on themselves because sometimes you do have to do it alone. It’s great if you can do it together, but I think sometimes people have to do it on their own. You can come back together, and if that is what it is supposed to be, then that’s great. If not, then okay.

Sam: Yeah, that’s such a good point, Alexiss, because support can come from so many different places. It doesn’t always have to come from a romantic relationship. And I think that that’s such a good reminder that it’s okay to take a break from romantic relationships and get support from other places. And I was curious for you, where did you get support? And how was that helpful? Whether it was during dating or during recovery like who was in who was in your circle?

Alexiss: I had amazing best friends. I really have hit jackpot. I remember when I first went into Renfrew, my best friend, she really literally dropped me off. I was a child at school and she dropped me off and waited for me. I had a really great supportive team and everyone around me. There were some people that made me feel crazy, but there are others that really wanted to see me happy. When I came out, no one expected me to just be like a switch. I did go straight back into school, literally the day after I landed back to New York from California. I remember someone said to me, “Oh my gosh, you have a light now.” At that time of my recovery,  that was one of my goals. I thought, I just want to be present, I just want to be happy.  I felt like I had dead eyes for 10 years, so for someone to say like, “Oh, you have a light in your eyes,” that is the nicest compliment. I will always remember it.

Sam: I think it’s so important in recovery to check in with yourself about your relationships and whether or not they’re actually making you feel good. We have a whole episode on growth fostering relationships and the things to look for when you’re in one. And so those sound like growth fostering relationships to me.

Ashley: I also want to say, I like some of the stuff you mentioned about Instagram too. You mentioned that it actually helped and set you up for some success when you were going out. And I just want to say, that’s an important thing to do as well in your recovery and kind of what Sam was saying, not only  is it important to take inventory of what our relationships are, but it’s also important to take inventory of our social media and what and all of this kind of what is helpful and what’s not helpful, like what’s going to get us stuck.

Alexiss: Yeah, and back when I was dealing with an eating disorder, this was 2010, Tumblr was really big and it was very pro-ana/pro-mia. So that just fed into it so much. And now the internet is censored a lot that there’s no hashtags about that,  there’s none of that. I think there’s been such a shift in social media and it can be used for good. But it’s also great to take breaks. I was off Instagram this year for eight months, and I just got back like maybe a month ago. I live in Miami in the winter, And when I came back to New York, I felt like everyone was moving. It’s New York, it’s always changing, but when I got back, I just felt like my social circle went away because I kind of just fell off. And so I did go back [on Instagram] just to communicate with my friends and see where everyone is now. It is important to take breaks, and if it’s not serving purpose to your mental health, then it’s good to push it away from it.

Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Alexiss, before we end today, anything you’d like our listeners to take away from this episode, maybe if we have listeners out there who are in eating disorder recovery and they’re trying to go on dates and they’re feeling lost or confused, what would you want them to know? What would you want them to take away from this episode?

Alexiss: I would say look into resources. If you’re nervous for dates, then maybe it’s not the right time. You shouldn’t feel so nervous for dates, so maybe take a break from it, and then go back when you’re feeling okay. It’s fine to cancel. It’s fine to just spend time with your friends and have those chapters where you’re just dedicated to your friends and family. There’s also things that have helped me with meal planning and cooking like relationship coaches and webinars. I just started working with ANAD as a mentor, and I started doing their hotline service. I’m getting calls and the other day I was helping someone just plan out their meal for the evening. It’s just rewarding. If you want to get into that too, it’s so rewarding to help other people in this community that know exactly what you’re experiencing, and are experiencing your own thoughts too.

Sam: Thank you. And so if there’s anyone out there who wants to connect with you, how can they do that?

Alexiss: They can follow me on Instagram or they can email me. My account is Alexiss Audrey, I have two S’s in my name [@alexissaudrey]. And then my email is alexissaudrey@ gmail.com.

Sam: Well, thank you so much, Alexiss, for coming on the show. Thank you for your vulnerability and telling your story with our listeners today. I know this episode is going to be so valuable for so many people and we appreciate you.

Alexiss: Thank you!  Yes, I hope so. I hope it helps somebody.

Ashley: Thank you for listening with us today on All Bodies. All Foods. presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.

Sam: We’re looking forward to you joining us next time as we continue these conversations.

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