Podcast Transcript

Episode 78: A Bittersweet Goodbye & a Bright New Beginning: Farewell Ashley, Welcome Laura 

[Bouncy theme music plays.]

Sam: Hey, I’m Sam.

Ashley: Hi, I’m Ashley, and you’re listening to All Bodies. All Foods. presented by The Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders. We want to create a space for all bodies to come together authentically and purposefully to discuss various areas that impact us on a cultural and relational level.

Sam: We believe that all bodies and all foods are welcome. We would love for you to join us on this journey. Let’s learn together.

Today’s episode is a really special one. It’s a farewell to someone who has been such a meaningful part of this podcast, Ashley. Co-hosting with Ashley has been one of the greatest joys. She’s so compassionate, creative, endlessly curious, and has this rare gift of making people feel truly seen, safe, and accepted. This episode- it’s an emotional one. We cry almost immediately. We laugh and we reflect on the beautiful journey we’ve shared. But it’s also a new beginning, and I couldn’t be more excited to welcome Dr. Laura McClain as our new co-host. She’s a talented clinician, educator, trainer. She’s incredibly smart and brings so much humor and heart to the table. I wanted to share a little bit more about Laura so you can get to know her. She’s a clinical psychologist and a board certified tele-mental health provider. She’s also the Director of Training for The Renfrew Center and a member of our conference and research committees.  She supports the clinical leadership throughout the entire organization and provides evidence-based care to patients. Laura has over a decade of experience treating eating disorders with special interests in college students, trauma, clients in midlife, co-occurring substance use, understanding and applying research to clinical practice, and ARFID. In addition to her role at Renfrew, she works in private practice. Dr. McClain is an active member of the American Psychological Association, the International Association of Eating Disorders Professionals, and is a member of the Psychology Inter-Jurisdictional Compact. This conversation is full of so much emotion, gratitude, and hope. I can’t wait for you to hear it, and I can’t wait for you to meet Laura.  Thanks for being with us today.

Hi, friends. Welcome back to All Bodies. All Foods. This is a very special episode. I just want to thank you all for pressing play because today we are saying our farewell to Ashley.

Ashley: Sam, I’m already tearing up.

Sam: Ashley, you’re crying already. All Bodies. All Foods. All Feelings are okay. There you go.  Yeah, I know.  I feel like I’m going to cry too. Okay. I think, yes, I’m very sad. And at the same time, I’m so happy for you because you’re following your dreams and your heart and you have so many amazing things that you’re going to be doing in the future.  And I hope this episode is sort of a closure for everyone, but also, I hope it’s a thank you also to you for all you’ve contributed to this podcast.  And  you’ve put your heart and soul into this podcast and it shows.  And I’m just so grateful that you’ve been a part of eight seasons, which is so incredible.  But no, I just want to check in with you right now, Ashley. What are you feeling?

Ashley: Yeah. Wow. Well, I wasn’t expecting the tears to hit me basically the moment we pressed record immediately.

Sam: Immediately.

Ashley: I am feeling immensely grateful.  We so for those of you, you know, I can’t remember what we’ve shared on the podcast, what we’ve shared, not on the podcast, but Sam and I both had this dream and this concept of creating this podcast years ago. I want to say maybe the first conversation that we had was in 2020.

Sam: Yeah.

Ashley: We, you know, coming from two different perspectives, I remember, you know, Sam, you’re a psychologist. I’m a licensed professional counselor. I don’t think either of us had a lot of extensive eating disorder training prior to working at Renfrew. Is that fair to say?

Sam: Yeah, it is fair to say. And I think that’s true for a lot of people. There’s just not a whole lot of training in graduate school. I mean, unless you’re lucky enough to maybe get an internship or something like that at an eating disorder facility. yeah, I  learned about eating disorders as a postdoctoral resident. And it was my first residency. Yeah, I think that’s pretty common.

Ashley: I knew nothing, to be quite honest. You know, I remember even prior to working at Renfrew, I did have a couple of clients actually come in with eating disorders.  My go-to at the time as a clinician, I just referred straight to Renfrew.  I didn’t even feel equipped as an outpatient provider to  be in that space. And the more I learned and the more I grew in this field and in this space, the more I realized that I wish more people felt equipped. And I wish that people didn’t feel like I felt before I started working in this field, and really before I started working at Renfrew, I wish that people felt like they knew how to even just hold space. Because I distinctly remember, I had this teenager that came in and  I don’t know if panic came over me. I just didn’t even know what to do when she started mentioning her eating disorder. And so, though I was working through with her regarding her trauma, because I’m also trauma is also one of my, as far as therapy goes, one of my love languages, I’m EMDR certified and I very much value that space. So though we were working together, I knew that her eating disorder needed to be addressed, and I just immediately sent her on to Renfrew.  And so anyway, all that to say, I really, oh my word, I learned so much while being at Renfrew. And the unified treatment model is truly one of the most incredible treatment models I’ve ever come across. I say that with so much genuineness. I love every piece of it. I think it’s extremely trauma informed.  I think it works well for families and for relationships.  I just, for me, that model checks every box. I’m also such a CBT and DBT and mindfulness person, and it incorporates all of that.

Sam: All of it. Yeah.

Ashley: All of it. And so, all of that to say, I feel like I’m taking a really long time to answer this question, but I really, loved the education that I received essentially on the job. And it meant so much to me, but it also felt like it was just such natural language to me to be able to use this treatment model and work with eating disorders. And I wanted other professionals to feel that. I didn’t want professionals to feel like they couldn’t touch this, you know, like they had to like have a panic attack in session and just be like, okay, go see this person. I can never work with you again.

Sam: Right. To be so afraid.

Ashley: Right. And not that everybody felt that way, but that truly was my own personal experience, you know, prior to doing eating disorder work. And so I just wanted to educate. I wanted to educate and I wanted people to know that they can also do this work. And so that was where part of my heart was, the big part of my heart was coming from. I also wanted people to know about Renfrew to be quite honest, because I loved the work that we did and do so much. I’ve been working for this company since 2017. And so over these last eight years, it has been incredible to me to see  the folks that we have seen come through the door to be able to support the people that I’ve been able to support by being in this platform and being a therapist with Renfrew. And so I wanted people to know about it.  I wanted to like scream from the mountains, like the unified treatment model is incredible.  People need to know how to do this. People need to know about Renfrew. People need to know how incredible and life giving  this work can be.  And so that was really,  I would say that’s kind of what was motivating me.  And lo and behold, you were having a similar experience actually, right? Or a similar in that you wanted to do the podcast. Yeah, you can share that.

Sam: Yeah, a lot of similarities actually between what  your story and my story actually. I really  wanted more than anything. I wanted to figure out a way to spread the message about the treatment model and about Renfrew far and wide.  And I wanted a way to reach as many people as possible to help educate the public about eating disorders. And as someone, you know, part of my role at Renfrew is I’m one of the Alumni Services Representatives.  And in that work, I’ve realized how important it is for people who are actively in recovery to hear from people who are living their lives and they’re fulfilled and they’re happy and they’re on the other side of treatment.  And I thought to myself, we need a space for people to share their recovery stories.

Ashley: Yes. 

Sam: Because people need help. They need help that things get easier and things get better and that there’s a life outside of treatment.  And I thought to myself, what about a podcast? And then I remember I brought up the idea and Alecia, who is the Director of Marketing, if you know her, she said, “that’s so funny that you’re saying this because Ashley Vicari wants to do a podcast too. And you guys can do it together.”  And I thought, okay, I don’t think I’ve ever really met Ashley, but I’m in. And you know, Ashley, how many seasons did we do together before we actually met in person? 

Ashley: Oh, oh, was it four or five or six? 

Sam: And then we finally met in Nashville.  Of all places. Cause I’m from Philadelphia and oh we met in Nashville and I cried then too because I couldn’t believe I was finally meeting you.  You know, my co-host, my colleague, my friend who I never met in person. So yes, it was an emotional meeting. But yeah, it’s been such an amazing experience and to be eight seasons in, it’s wild. You know, I would have never…Well, I didn’t know what to expect, really. I didn’t know if maybe we would do one season and I don’t know, maybe it wouldn’t work out and we would move on to something else. But here we are, eight seasons in and wow, we’ve met some incredible people. We’ve learned some amazing things. I mean, at least I should speak for myself. I feel like I’ve learned more doing this podcast than maybe any other kind of CE event I’ve attended. I don’t know. We’ve just learned so much. I have some questions for you I was hoping to ask as part of this farewell episode. I’d love that. We were just kind of reminiscing about past seasons. And I’m just curious because we, you know, when we think back to the very first episode we ever did, do you remember we had Vanessa on the show? Vanessa Menaged? We learned just all about the history of Renfrew and her time as a little girl running around Renfrew’s campus sledding. I think there were horses back then and all of that. It seems like forever ago but also feels like yesterday that we recorded that episode. But when you think back to that very first episode, what feelings come up for you now as, you know, now that you’re getting ready to say goodbye?

Ashley: I think, when I look back at the first episode and really Sam, our first season, a lot of joy comes to mind, a lot of joy. And also, I have this space of just like sweetness for you and I, because we didn’t know what we were doing.

Sam:  It was like full on imposter syndrome for me. I’m glad that maybe you felt in a similar way.

Ashley: I remember being so nervous. I was so nervous. Those of you that have truly been listening since the beginning. You know this about me, I would say, I was like three or four months postpartum when we did our very first  episode. So I was like…

Sam: The hormones were going.

Ashley: The hormones were going.  Even though my baby was literally in the other room, I was like not… She was not attached to me. I was like in a little bit of just even a personal panic because I was going through this transition. But then I have, I’m going to cry.

Sam: That’s okay.

Ashley: I have valued my time so much at Renfrew and I’ve been so appreciative of the way that they open space for me to grow professionally and trusting you and myself to do this and essentially be a voice for them.  I can’t even express to you how incredible that honor has been.  So to even like  have the opportunity to interview Vanessa, you know,  like that was so incredible to me.  And part of the nervousness was just, I hope I do this justice. I hope I do Renfrew justice. I hope I do my profession justice. I think we worked together, Sam, on kind of  picking out the music and creating the intros and creating the outros. And there was a line that I remember writing. I can’t remember if it’s our intro or outro,  but the line, the sentence says, “let’s learn together,” and the reason I wrote that is because I so desperately want to maintain that space of learning and growing  and  acknowledging that I do not know it all  at all.  But being in that space feels so humbling to me because it is, I mean, we really have had the most incredible guests on the show,  but it has been,  you know, it’s just been a place of honor. I mean, thinking about that first episode and even the first season,  I just I’m so thankful that they stuck with us, that we were allowed to continue to do this, and that you wonderful listeners out there have continued to listen with us. Our guests were incredible. I would say, at least for myself, I’ll speak for myself. I was learning how to do this, you know?. So I’m thankful for that first season, and I’m very thankful for how we’ve grown.

Sam: How we’ve grown, I know, that’s so true. Oh my gosh, yes.  It has been such an amazing growing and learning experience for sure. And yes, thinking back to season one, I feel the same way. And I think, you know, it just sort of reminds me how our emotions have so much information for us. And, you know, you talk about feeling all that anxiety and nervousness, and it’s because this was so important to you.

Ashley: Right. Right.

Sam: You know, it was this podcast was so aligned with your core values and you wanted it to go well and you really felt what an honor and a privilege it was to be able to create this community and share this information. And I think that anxiety was just reminding you how important this work is. 

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah.  I agree.  And it took some time to get used to that.

Sam: I still get nervous.

Ashley: I know. I tell you it, like, on the days that we record, but Sam and I talk about this when we see each other on camera before our guest comes on. I mean, we can, we, you know, we think about it constantly because we want to give this our energy and our all.  And I would say, Sam also,  one of the things that I valued so much about this is being your partner on here. And it has, you all, I am so sorry about the sniffles in the microphone. It has been a joy  to share this space, which really has been extremely vulnerable, I would say for the both of us, but to be able to share it with you, because I feel like we have a very similar value system and I respect your work  so much.  For those of you who don’t know and are interested in ever doing a CE event and learning more about eating disorders, I would encourage you to find any of Sam DeCaro’s work and attend, view it, whatever you can, because you’re incredible. Yeah, I mean, that has also been something that has kept me going and been so like, just one of the best parts of this and what I look forward to is that we get to be partners on this together and do it together.

Sam: Ashley, thank you so much for saying that. Oh, this show is just very going to be very emotional today.  I’m just accepting that. you know, well, first of all, I feel the same way about you, Ashley. You just bring so much warmth and heart to everything you do. And it’s just been a beautiful thing to do this alongside you because just being with you, honestly, folks out there, you’re listening, by the way, if you ever had a chance to just be in a room with Ashley, or even in a virtual space with Ashley, it’s like your heart just feels like full. You know, and  I think our guests felt that. I think our community out there who listens to us can feel just how warm and compassionate you are. And you have brought just a light to this podcast.  And I’m just grateful. I’m grateful to just to be next to you in this. Next to you right on the screen.  I’m just grateful for it. And so that brings me to my next question. Oh gosh, I have a lot, but yes, the warmth, the compassion,  you’ve been such a force in every episode. It’s like you can feel it. And are there moments or episodes or conversations from previous seasons that you just, that you feel some pride?

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. That’s a great question. I think there’s, well, there are definitely moments that I am incredibly grateful for. One of our very first episodes, I have everything pulled up on my phone because I wanted to make sure I get it right. One of our very first episodes was with Judy Rabinor. Do you remember that one?

Sam: Well, she’s the author of Girl in the Red Boots.

Ashley: Yeah, The Girl in the Red Boots.  And it’s in our first season. I can’t remember the title of that episode right now, but she was talking about part of her work within eating disorders is working with mothers and daughters, and reparations and being, you know, four months postpartum at that time, I just remember, I don’t know if I displayed this on our Zoom call at the time, but I was just, I was so emotional in that episode because I was thinking about my own journey as a daughter. And then I was thinking about my new journey as a mother. And so, I know the question was like, there episodes where I felt pride, but that was an episode where I felt this immense gratitude that I just got to be in this space and hear.  And I think I just want to say that like being in this space and hearing the most incredible people  that are professionals and experts at what they’ve been doing. And they’ve been studying certain parts and certain nuances, and for them to share their love of the work that they do and what they’ve uncovered and then be able to educate the masses with that, that has just been amazing to me. I mean, it has just been incredible. I will say probably I loved and felt very excited about Jamie Weisberg’s  episode.

Sam: I knew you were going to say that.

Ashley: I loved that one so much.

Sam: Me too.

Ashley: I loved that we could be a space for her to share her story, but to also unabashedly claim that she gets to live her life the way anybody else gets to live their lives. And that was just so beautiful to me. I feel like there are just, there are so many episodes that I have taken something that I’ve learned something. Oh, here’s another one. Megan Jane Crabb.

Sam: Yes. Oh, I know. Oh my gosh. That one. Talk about feeling nervous. I felt like I was meeting, I don’t know, a superstar. Well, she is a superstar.

Ashley: She is a superstar.

Sam: And I just, yeah, I was starstruck.

Ashley: Following her on Instagram and seeing her work and what she is about and what she’s speaking for and then being able to like talk to her really and just like hear her heart. And I loved that one. And I did. I was like, wow, we got Mary Jane Crabb on our episode. This is really, really cool.

Sam: It was so cool. It was so cool. Yeah.

Ashley: And then I pulled up another one. This one for a lot of reasons was like one of the most powerful episodes for me, but this one was released on March 16th of 2023 and the title is Fat Bodies and Eating Disorder Treatment with Jessica Elwort, LCAT and RDT. That, I think this was the first time that I can recall, and so again, I want to say, remember that line, “let’s learn together.”

Sam: Right. Let’s learn together.

Ashley: So even though I’ve been doing this work since 2017, I again, still learning, still growing. have always lived in a larger body and kind of always identified with that. But I feel like this was the first time that I heard somebody speak about themselves using the term fat and it being okay and it not being derogatory and not being anything other than a descriptor.  And kind of the first time that I recognized that that could be a word that is reclaimed.  And that felt really powerful to me as well.  

Sam: Yeah.

Ashley: Yeah. Those were some of my favorites. And then I just feel like it’s just been an honor to hear from others. And to hear their stories. Even the professionals that we have on have all had stories, you know? And that has just been, that’s been cool.

Sam: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Oh, so, okay. Here’s a question. This might be kind of a tough question, but I would love to know your answer.  What has co-hosting All Bodies. All Foods. taught you about yourself?

Ashley: Well, one, that I really, really value preparing for something that is important to me. We have, you know, Sam, you and I have had the experience of people sending us their books. We’ve even purchased various books.  Sam and I, for those of you that don’t know, I mean, really we do all the ins and outs of this. And so we do all the research  and we do all the deep dives  and really  learning about and understanding folks that share very congruent and similar values as we do  and as Renfrew does, I would say, that has been really cool  to meet folks across the community  that, like I said, just share our values. And so I think one of the things I’ve loved about this, and I will also say one of the things that has created the most work is the deep dive, but is the research aspect of this.  And as somebody who has always had a hard time reading, you know, Cliff Notes was my best friend in high school. And then it morphed into Pink Monkey. Did you ever hear about Pink Monkey, Sam?

Sam: No, no, no, no. I don’t. That might have been after my time. Cliff notes, I never really knew what. Yes. That was, I remember that being a big thing.

Ashley: So anyway, reading has always been just  sitting down and reading has been a little bit challenging for me, but doing this reading and doing this work,  it’s like this fire ignited in me, and then I wanted to, I wanted to research more. I wanted to know more. I wanted to see more and, and I wanted to learn more. And it, just, that has been a cool thing. I would say that I feel like, like you said earlier, I have been, I feel like I’ve been taking a master class for four years. And it hasn’t stopped and that has been so cool.

Sam: Oh my gosh. And that’s a great way to describe it, a master class. I hope our listeners experience it that way, too. It’s sort of like two seconds for free, and it’s a master class every other week. Yeah, it’s been such a learning experience. So  what’s next for you, Ashley?  What’s calling you? How can we cheer you on in your next chapter?

Ashley: So I was getting this little like, I don’t know, butterflies, this little movement, this desire really to be back  in the therapeutic space, I would say solely. Probably about, I don’t know, around two years ago.  And it took me some time to really kind of like dream up and imagine and then kind of start to craft that. And so over the last year and a half, I would say I have opened up my own practice and it’s real basic, everyone. It’s AshleyVicariCounseling.com. I opened up my own practice and really just kind of have been leaning into that. And over even the last year, one of the things that I’ve been getting more into is presenting and educating and doing things like that.  And truly, the podcast has felt like a master class because I feel like a lot of the stuff that we talk about here has equipped me to do a lot of the presentations and trainings that I’ve done and has pointed me in really helpful directions as far as research is concerned, which has been great. So not only am I practicing as a therapist and physically now located in Bowling Green, Kentucky, but I also practice in Tennessee  and in Virginia. So I’m doing that and I’m teaching, you know, via presentation, via doing some conferences, doing, in fact, I’m doing a master class in eating disorders right now.

Sam: That’s so awesome.

Ashley: That I’ve been presenting this whole year. And that has been, it has felt so good, really. It’s felt so good to predominantly be in the space of being a therapist, but then to also, like I said, bring along my colleagues to also understand and begin to learn and feel comfortable in this arena too. Because also I think the more we learn and grow, the more we’re understanding that eating disorders are not going anywhere.  And there are so many nuances when we think about eating disorders. There’s so many folks that don’t necessarily meet a DSM criteria or they may meet something one day and then they meet something else the next. I mean, there’s just so many nuances and there’s so many ways that we can support folks. And so I think that’s where I’m headed. That’s where I’m going.  And this has meant everything to me. I’ve loved being a co-host in this podcast, and it feels like my time to pass it on.

Sam: Yes. I just want to say that the clients and patients at Ashley Vicari Counseling, how lucky are they to have you as a therapist? Oh my gosh. And also, it’s just so amazing that you will continue training and educating providers and helping them feel more comfortable working with eating disorders because you’re expanding access. And we talk a lot about that on this show that access to care, access to eating disorder treatment is such a major problem in this country, and in your next chapter, you are going to be part of the solution.  And it’s so awesome. And I can’t think of anyone better to be taking on that work because everything you’ve learned from the podcast and your training and work at Renfrew, who better to do that?

Ashley: I actually, so I’m going to be presenting at the Kentucky Counseling Association later this year. And thank you, Jessica, the title of my presentation is, Fat is Not a Dirty Word.

Sam: Oh, I love that.

Ashley: I can’t wait to because even eating disorders, but even like educating about what fat phobia is, right, and how that has impacted us  from so many aspects in so many settings, like even educating providers on that.  I am so excited to be in that space.

Sam: Oh, that’s wonderful. Yes, more trainings on fat phobia, weight stigma. It’s so needed. It’s so needed. And you bring such passion to these topics. It’s palpable. So I am so glad you’re out there doing this work because it’s so important and you’re just the person for it. So thank you. Thank you.  Okay. So there are listeners out there who probably have some feelings about you leaving. If you could speak directly to those listeners, maybe there’s someone out there who has really felt seen and heard and loved because of your voice. What do you want to say to them right now?

Ashley: Well, when Sam and I first started doing this, we had a conference that we went to, and there was a sweet woman, I think she was a professional there who had asked about meeting us, I guess. And somebody, I think it was Sam Menaged, the owner of Renfrew came up to us and said,  Sam and Ashley, you have a fan in the room who like really wants to meet you. And we, you and I were like, what?

Sam: I was confused. I didn’t know. I didn’t really know what he was talking about.

Ashley: And then she was so lovely.

Sam: Oh, I know.

Ashley: And was so giddy and excited to talk to us. And that was just the coolest thing in the world.

Sam: Wasn’t it?

Ashley: Oh, I know. I’m so thankful for her because she was a physical representation of what  I hope that we have done over these last eight seasons.  And I hope that people who have experienced life similar to me, even who are providers and who want to support and care for people  who may have experienced fat phobia and weight stigma in their life,  who may have felt lost,  who may have not known which direction to go or, yeah, maybe didn’t even know who they were. I hope that this has helped give people a sense of direction, a sense of understanding, a sense of confidence in who they are and who they can be and who they can support, and voices that they can listen to instead of other voices that we don’t need to listen to anymore.  I hope that people have felt like they’re receiving education. I hope that this has helped. Yeah, I hope that this has given people a ground to stand on, firm foundation to stand on regardless of where they’re at, whether they’re a professional or whether they are somebody who had a history with an eating disorder, someone who still has a needing disorder,  a loved one of someone, a supporter of someone.  I hope this has given them community and space and education to feel equipped to keep moving.

Sam: Yeah.  Oh, that’s so beautifully said. Thank you. And thank you for that memory of meeting that lovely woman. Oh my gosh.

Ashley:  It was so sweet.

Sam: So beautiful. And by the way, if any of you out there ever see us, please come say hi. You make our whole day when you do that. Please. Oh, OK. So this has been an emotional ride. But Ashley, I just want to say again, thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything you’ve done and everything you’ve contributed to this podcast. You have given your heart. You have given your time. You have read books. You have done so much. And you, your voice, you know, you and your voice are irreplaceable. And that being said, I have hope for the future because we do have someone new joining us. Dr. Laura McClain as our new host and she is going to add a whole new perspective, a whole new voice and just she’s going to bring all of her knowledge and it is not to replace you, Ashley. You can’t be replaced. But Laura is adding something new to the podcast, and I am so excited for our audience to meet her. She was actually on our very first episode of season eight.

Ashley: Yes, she was. Yes, she was.

Sam: All about working with trauma and eating disorders.  So we have a few questions for Laura to help our audience get to know her a little more. And we’re very excited to have her on today, so Laura, welcome to the show.

Laura: Hello.

Sam: Hi.

Laura: I’ve just been listening the whole time. It’s been wonderful. 

Sam: Oh, I’m so happy you’re here today. We have a few questions for you. And yeah, we’re excited. 

Ashley: So Laura, I really wanted to be the one to ask you this because I know you’re stepping in, you’re coming in. And I couldn’t, I’m also, I couldn’t be more excited for your voice to join the podcast.  You are incredibly knowledgeable in this field. And I’ve had the fortunate experience of hearing you speak many times as well, and I have greatly enjoyed that. And so I would love to ask you and love for our listeners to get an idea of, you know, what drew you to this podcast? What, where is your heart in this? What are your hopes and your dreams and your goals and all of that? 

Laura: Oh, how much time do we have now?  And I will apologize. I am getting over a cold, so my voice is a little whatever, fighting a cough, so apologies in advance. But I mean, I’m incredibly grateful and excited.  And truth be told, Ashley, I am a little nervous.  Big shoes to fill, but really actually appreciative of the trust and the opportunity of being able to step into this role and I will be learning along the way. And so if I’m thinking about, you know, what have I really appreciated is I have a passion for learning. I’m very curious. I am the person that loves reading,  right? All of the things. So it’s one of those things that I love giving knowledge, like I love receiving knowledge. I love the mission of providing resources, and so especially coming from the clinical world, I think about a lot of folks that just don’t have any. So they feel very alone or isolated or they don’t have enough support. And so it’s another kind of more creative way for folks to receive support. As I’ve listened to episodes along the way, I think there’s this really beautiful way that there’s this installation of hope for recovery and for community and connection, right? And our world looks very different than it did, you know, a few decades ago. And I believe in good clinical work and good supervision.  So being in the training department, one of those things, you those are my big passions. And I think, again, these are some of those ways that we can really help people grow within their career and kind of stretch their wings and, you know, do other things and find these passion projects or topics that they get really excited about and can share.

Ashley: Laura, so when we did the interview with you, the podcast show on trauma, I think at the very end, you mentioned you said, you know, and if you all would ever be interested in having me back, like I’d love to come out. 

Sam: Yes or no, I think Laura had actually said if you ever need me to fill in as a host.

Laura: Oh, yeah!

Ashley: You may have even said that.

Sam: Oh, yeah. No, she already has leveled up as a host.

Laura:  Just inserted myself. I know.

Ashley: Well, I had already. Sam and I, I had recently shared with Sam that I would be stepping away after season eight. So when you said that, you won’t see in the video, like our eyes cut to each other.  And then after the podcast was over and you signed off, were like, hmm, interesting.

Sam: I love it.

Ashley: Very good. 

Sam: All the stars were aligning.

Laura: It so much fun. Like I’d never been on a podcast. I’ve obviously not, you know, run a podcast, but it was such a fun experience and just to have this kind of time to share what folks are passionate about. I mean, I think that’s why people love to learn and they feel connected and supported. And it’s just been a wonderful thing to be a part of even in its smallest measurement so far.

Sam: Yeah. Well, I know that you, Laura, have never been on a podcast and obviously haven’t hosted a podcast yet. And at the same time, you have so much experience training. Training providers, training clinicians within the Renfrew system.  You’re the Director of Training here at Renfrew, and not only that, but you’ve had years and years of work, you know, treating eating disorders, working with clients who are actively in recovery. You’ve learned so much along the way in your various roles at Renfrew. I was wondering what one insight or truth that you will carry with you into the next season.

Laura: Being curious. I’ve been reflecting a lot on that just in terms of some of the trainings that I’ve done and things that I don’t know, and how do I remain curious? I think it’s easy to not dive into things we don’t understand, right? Or do they go, oh, that’s a huge task. I don’t know how to do it  perfectly. And so I think for me, it’s just remaining curious, which has deepened relationships with people. I think maybe a better trainer and a teacher in a lot of ways. I think maybe a better supervisor and clinician. With that comes listening first. So I’m really excited to invite folks and I can just hear and listen and absorb whatever information they have. I like to be on the receiving end of that as well, which is always nice. I always want to be growing and learning and changing and evolving. And I hope to do that for the rest of time to be on this.

Sam: I love that straight out of Renfrew’s Unified Treatment Model, straight out of the playbook, you know, just approaching everything with curiosity, without judgment, you know, being able to just approach things that way. So valuable. Okay. One more question for you. Our listeners, as we talked about before, they come from a lot of different places and spaces.  Some are outpatient providers, eating disorder treatment providers. Some are actively in recovery. Some love someone with an eating disorder. And then there are some listeners who are quietly suffering holding onto pain no one else knows about, and they listen in because they feel heard in some way or understood in some way. As we step into next season, what’s one hope or intention you carry for those folks listening in?

Laura: I mean, my hope is that I can do Ashley justice and maintain truly that sense of community and connection. Right? I mean, I think about just the world that we’re in, how disconnected we are in general in a lot of ways and isolated people feel, and for folks that don’t know me, I was in Atlanta for many, many years doing clinical work and I was the Site Director and then moved to Maine because we wanted to and went to fully remote work. And so my participation with other humans shifted very drastically in a very short amount of time. It’s really easy, I think, with even those flexibility on autonomy with remote work to feeling incredibly isolated, right? And what we’re doing and then imagining what that feels like to folks that feel like they don’t have a community, right? They don’t have a support system or it’s limited.  And just how terrible  that can feel, so I’m hoping that that shines through in terms of that hope and community and connection and maintaining that tether that has really been there since the beginning.

Sam: Well, Laura, I just want to thank you for your willingness and your enthusiasm to be the next co-host. And I’m so excited to have you and learn from you and partner with you in this.

Laura: Same. I’m excited. Ashley, we’ll just have you back another time because.

Sam: Oh, yes, Ashley, you will be. We’ll just have you as a frequent visitor to come in and say hi. I mean, Ashley, you and I have seen each other in various capacities throughout the years and always, always, always a pleasure to be near you and to see you, whether it be virtual or in person. And I wish you the best truly. And I’m excited for your next adventure and people that also get to learn and heal with you. I hope you’ll listen in and stay tuned. 

Ashley: Thank you so much, Laura.  I truly like I couldn’t imagine someone better. I’m so excited for you and Sam to be doing this together. And I’m excited for our listeners to be able to learn from you as well. You are a wealth of knowledge.

Laura: Thank you.

Ashley: You are!  And I’m so excited for them to be able to have you on. So yeah. So Sam, do you mind if I take it away?

Sam: Take it away, Ashley.

Laura: Take it away. 

Ashley: To all of our wonderful listeners, thank you so much for giving me this opportunity and for continuing to come back and listen and learn and grow with us. It’s been an honor.  And yeah, thank you.

And thank you to our listeners for being here with us today.

Thank you for listening with us today on All Bodies. All Foods. presented by the Renfrew Center for Eating Disorders.

Sam: We’re looking forward to you joining us next time as we continue these conversations.

[Bouncy theme music plays.]